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Transcript:
States. I’m John Scott, and in each episode, we’ll shine a light on the financial side of the legal [music]
world, turning law firm numbers into impact driven stories from taxes and profitability to practice growth and
leadership. We sit down with law firm innovators who are shaping the future of the profession. Let’s dive in right here
on Judicial Dollars and Cents.
Hey, and welcome back to Judicial Dollars and Cents, where the business of law meets the practice of law. I’m John
Scott with Anders Virtual CFO Services for Law Firms. And each week, we sit down with successful attorneys, legal
innovators, and business leaders to explore what it really takes to build a thriving firm. We go beyond the
courtroom to discuss leadership, profitability, operations, technology, AI, and the strategies that help firms
grow, scale, and create lasting value. Whether you are a managing partner, an emerging firm leader, or someone
passionate about the future of the legal profession, our goal is to provide practical insights that you can put to
work immediately. Today, we are pleased to welcome Barry P. Goldberg, founder of the Goldberg Injury Lawyers in Southern
California. Barry has more than four decades of experience in representing injury victims and is widely recognized
as one of California’s leading authorities on uninsured and underinsured motorist claims. Other
attorneys throughout California regularly consult with Barry on and UIM matters, and he has authored and
lectured extensively on this highly specialized area of personal injury law. Beyond the courtroom, Barry has built a
growing multi-off law firm serving clients throughout Southern California. And the firm has been recognized in the
Inc. 5000 length list of America’s fastest growing private companies and ranked among the law firm 500 fastest
growing companies. Barry, welcome to Judicial Dollars and Cents. Hey, John. Uh, I like your podcast. I’m
honored to be part of it. Thank you so much for being here. you have um I really want to get down to
this uninsured and underinsured motorist thing, but but let’s start with u your
origin story. How did you get to where you are today? Well, it’s a kind of a long and
torturous uh uh path, but um uh in my family, lawyers were held in high
esteem. Uh, regrettably, my father needed lawyers uh with his he was an entrepreneur, had lots of businesses,
lots of lawsuits, and he always uh uh brought the lawyers home and uh uh had
me play chess against them and stuff like that. And so I was always held in high esteem. My older brother uh went to
law school, became a personal injury lawyer. He’s 10 years older than I am. Um more or less I worked with him for
about 17 years. So that’s how I got my upbringing in in the legal world. Um
much different approach back way back then. Um most lawyers learn how to run a
law firm from their experience in being a lawyer. And my older brothers uh who’s
a brilliant lawyer um believed in small small uh no expense no expense. Um we’re
old enough uh that advertising was u frowned upon. Uh and and so um um if you
didn’t get a referral by hand, you didn’t get a you didn’t get a case. So
um that’s that was kind of my beginnings. Um as far as uh the practice
of law, um when I moved to the valley, I had little kids. Um this is where I
could buy a house and I we were in Beverly Hills and the commute was just uh too difficult. And so uh I I set up a
shingle without uh any plan. whatsoever thinking that because I’m such a brilliant lawyer all the cases would
come my way eventually and they didn’t you know it some
[laughter] did but it was a struggle um um I I was actually surprised that I
that that I had to use effort to go out and u let the world know a little bit
about me in order to get cases. Um I was a very right from the beginning a very avid uh networker um joining groups like
BNI and others. Um and for several years
at least half of my business came from face-toface networking the oldfashioned way.
Yeah. And um um I’ve been thinking about that in in anticipation of this uh this
show is that it’s really inefficient um face toface networking. Um the um it’s
true people get to know you on a personal level and you can get the great handoff kind of cases, but it takes
hours and hours of uh showing up at meetings um um listening to sales
pitches from life insurance agents uh having lunches uh with people that couldn’t possibly refer you a case um
and doing it on a regular basis, you know, like that. You know, I never totaled up the hours, but I felt it was
inefficient. But you’ve differentiated yourself by becoming the expert or the guru on
uninsured and underinsured motorist claims. And I do have a real connection
to this. My daughter’s car was parked on the street and it was hit by a hit-and-run driver that was later
identified. And in both cases that I’m going to tell you about the I won’t name the insurance
company, but Flo is their mascot. And they they tend to underpay their claims.
And if you have that insurance as a person who harmed someone else’s property, you’re going to get sued if
the magnitude is big enough. And my father-in-law had this situation. He had the same insurance and hit someone. They
had some, they’re all fine, but they had some medical issues and his insurance just wasn’t adequate. So, he had to dip
into his pocket to write a check. On my daughter’s case, you know, the insurance company didn’t give us a whole lot of
money. I had to dip into my pocket to make her whole. So, it’s very I have two daughters, so I I get
[laughter] where you’re coming from. Um, well, let let me let me say this. Uh, let me say this about that. Um first
of all um I don’t think Progressive is any or or that insurance company is any
worse than any other insurance company. Um the if if if the commercials were to
be believed um um and they are uh you would think everything will be always be
taken care of perfectly. But let’s face it, if they did take care of everything perfectly, there would be no uh cause
for guys like me to have a business and uh represent people. So, it’s really the
insurance companies that push people to me. Okay. So, so what are the options though?
You’re representing someone harmed and the person that harmed them was either underinsured or uninsured.
Yeah. What are their options? Well, let let’s let’s kind of like uh get the genesis of this first of all.
Okay. So, so here I was telling you about all my in-person networking. Um, I read a an article by a uh young lady who
was uh starting out a marketing agency and she said um uh I could compete with
big law firms and big advertising firms if I you know niched a little bit. And so I’ve always had an interest in
uninsured and uninsured motors law. In California the uh statutes are are
really kind of ancient. They they predated the statutes having to do with uh insurance being mandatory. um and
they they’re not self-executing. They’re um poorly written and there’s a lot of
confusion. Okay. So, I just I I said followed her instructions. I started uh
blogging um twice a week and posting it on social media on different topics
about uninsured and underinsured motorist law. Okay. And uh the average
and I I I may be going far off a field on this, but I think I I’m I’m in good position to say this. The average
personal injury lawyer knows about uninsured motorists and underinsured motorists, but really doesn’t know the
inner workings of it. And there isn’t a good place to go to say you should do this in in this circumstance. Okay. So,
um, so there really was an opportunity in there for me to to become an expert.
Okay. So, now back to your your situation. Um, in California, for
example, we believe that about one in every five drivers um is uninsured.
Okay. Um, we believe and and part of this is based on stats and part of it’s based on
anecdotes with my colleagues and so forth. It’s probably 50% of all cases, all
cases that come in the door are either uninsured or underinsured, meaning there isn’t enough um insurance um by the at
fault party to take care of the the claim. and that your own insurance uh if you have uninsured motorists with high
enough limits, it it it makes up the difference in California between the
third-party liability insurance and the amount of uninsured motors that you carry. Okay? So, um uh and different
states do it differently, by the way. Um so, it’s not universal that way. Um so,
it it comes into play very often. And one of the things I like to tell people about the the happen stance that I
became an expert in this area is that I get calls from lawyers
um once to twice per day asking questions and I take every single call.
Okay. Um and uh what I ask for in return and this kind of dovetales into some of
the stuff that I think you want to talk about. um I ask for a review um from all these lawyers that I’m giving free legal
advice to. And so it’s one of the ways I’ve built my my um my review portfolio
is by answering questions. So well that in this day of AI where clients will go, okay, I’ve been harmed
and you’re going to pop up in in their search. So that’s that’s genius. Yeah, the AI is is um is something that
we’re we’re working very very diligently on. Um, and uh I I can’t every day that
I’m in the office now, I think about what step forward can I make that would
make me the recommended choice for someone searching either for um motor
vehicle accidents in my area or areas and an uninsured and underinsured motorist law. So, it’s every day I think
of it. Wow, that’s great. And and you have had tremendous growth. I mean, you’ve gone from a single office to multiple
offices. What was your biggest lesson in in scaling like that?
Well, um I I think that the biggest lesson is first of all not to be afraid
to scale. [laughter] I I was afraid to scale. I when I hired my first couple of employees, I was mortified. I and I
really felt like I was unqualified to be an employer because I didn’t know what I was a good lawyer but I didn’t know
[laughter] anything about being an employer and had only heard bad things about having employees. Okay. So um so
that was that was the biggest hurdle and and the way I handled that um is I um I
got as much education on the topic as possible and I am of one of these
believers that uh education precedes um financial success. Um, so I, um,
actually once I started really getting a lot of momentum, I I joined an
organization you might have heard of called How to Manage a Small Law Firm because I needed to learn how to manage
a small law firm. So, their name fit pretty pretty well there. I I think most
of the people in that organization were are like young lawyers just starting out. I was a little bit different, which is I I was doing pretty well, but I
needed the education to backfill what I was doing, make sure I was doing it correctly. And even though I’m not part
of that organization any longer, um I’m still utilizing uh what I’ve learned
because it takes some time to actually implement everything that you learn. And
um uh you know I when I saw that you were a virtual CFO um um I I’ve used
virtual CFO because I don’t know anything about finance. I never learned about finance. I I didn’t I didn’t know
what I was doing. So I needed advice. Well, you’re not alone there. Most attorneys don’t have an accounting or
finance background. And I love the fact that you’ve been vulnerable enough to get that help that you need because
quite frankly what we our competitors do is work with firms on balancing their growth and profitability. So to that
end, what numbers or metrics do you pay most closely to as your firm grows?
It it’s it’s been changing over time. Okay. One of the things um that that I
can tell you about me personally, but nobody in the finance background understands is um once I decided to grow
um my my revenue was like paramount uh as opposed to profitability. I’m not
saying I don’t want to be profitable. I’m just saying that that that I can’t be profitable without getting that revenue, you know, numbers up and and
hitting that. And I’m also um I I like to when I talk to my colleagues, they
don’t quite understand this. I’m not greedy. Um, [laughter] so, um, I’m I’m building something of value and it’s of
value to me now because I’m near the tail end of my practice and having
something of value is really what’s going to make the rest of my life great. Um, so maybe I, you know, I could have
taken more, you know, month-long European vacations and bought Rolex watches, but that was just not important
to me. So, so I’ve been trying to grow the practice, trying to grow it the right way. So, it’s actually a living
breathing organization that that can survive. So, you know, I’m glad you said that you’re
trying to build something for value for later because what you have a PI firm
with a unique um there’s some unique goodwill there in being the expert in
uninsured and underinsured. What What is your exit plan? Is it transition to
folks inside sell to another? Because PI firms unlike an hourly billing firm with
you know other a lot of law firms don’t have that much value but PI firms have
this inventory of cases. Yeah. You’ve got this spet of cases that just keep coming in. You have some real value
that’s salailable. Yeah. You know, I [snorts] I’ve got, you know, I think about this a
lot and I um and I change my mind a lot
about what I how I feel about it. Okay. Um in uh the how to manage they I think
that they focus on making your business a salailable asset. Um, so our
accounting is um very detailed and very um precise. Like if someone were to come
in and audit us, they would see where the money is and where it’s going and who’s getting it and it’s very very
clean books, right? Um I so that’s where I was headed and um and and um lately
I’ve been thinking well you know there’s a couple other options. one is I the lawyers that work for me could could
take it over and pay me over time and things like that if if if that were the exit strategy. Um
I I also have had this fantasy about um firing everybody um going to the kitchen
table and uh settling the cases that I can settle and and referring all the rest of them out um and and and keeping
my marketing intact so things would come in. I’m not sure that that would be very satisfying, but but it’s an option out
there. I don’t know. The other thing, and there’s a guy out there putting out a book saying um never sell or something
like that. And so, so the idea is that you just keep keep your law firm and
then you hire people that um that continue to run it the way you want it run and there’s not this need to to
sell. So, the short answer for you is I I haven’t decided where we’re going on this. I don’t know. Well, and that last
option you mentioned is really creating a business that doesn’t require you to be there every day.
You’re right. So, so I’m I’m like approaching that now in certain ways um
where um I have more time um because I don’t have my my fingers in
every single case um to think about um how how am I going to position the firm
for growth and and how are we going to get new cases in. And it’s been, you know, I I feel like we we had like a
crisis at the beginning of the year for for my office. We get about 50% of our
business from just regular SEO search and about 50% from uh referrals and
satisfied clients and doctors and things like that. And in the beginning of the year, we took a big hit at all. You
know, the numbers started going down. And I think it’s because AI um whereas
we used to like it was obvious that we were the obvious choice let’s say on Google in our area. Now, you know,
Google was putting out stuff on AI saying, “Well, there there are several good lawyers in Woodland Hills and you
could choose and Barry’s handsome and Joe is tall and you know, and so it it
was it really offiscated the choice for everybody and then um I I don’t remember
which AI search engine it is like just would do one person and sometimes they would get it wildly wrong and so so we I
saw our numbers, you know, uh new cases going down, not up. So, um, you know,
I’ve been really digging in trying to do the things that need to be done for AI search because I I I if I can hack that,
we’re good for the next couple years, you know. So, so, so I’m really concentrating on it. The other thing
that we did is I said, “Hey, we have a client list.” Now, this is going old
school a little bit. We have a client list, and what are we doing to really um
get the most out of our our happy clients? because we’re a fivestar law firm. We we get five star reviews. So,
we’ve we’ve been sending out lots of stuff. Um we do um well, we do a
newsletter every month. We uh send out um uh water bottles and uh pens and
jelly beans and just just so so our happy people remember us, right? Um, and
then the other thing that we’ve done that’s been really a good and this is a good little hack for somebody is we send
out um a $10 gift card for Starbucks uh for people on their birthday u digital.
We get the most amount of gee thanks thanks for the coffee, you know, because people don’t want to spend $10 on coffee
anymore, you know. [laughter] So So it’s just it’s just all these little touches. And guess what? we this last few months
um you know our numbers have gone up from referrals you know so it does work
it’s a it’s a lot of work but it’s it’s it pays off so I am so glad that that was your
experience because that’s exactly what we try and do is give you good data and good KPIs and then we also want to
forecast and in a contingent environment it is a it is doable to forecast based
on you know average case length and what stage you’re on in the case, right? But from that, when you saw that ca new
matters were ticking down, you didn’t just sit pat and go, “Oh my god, you know, the sky is falling and how do I
fix this?” You started pulling levers to make things change. And sometimes things
you try don’t work. You look at the data, you stop doing that, and you pivot and do something else. A good example is
uh when that happened at the beginning of the year, I did something that I’ve been burned by probably four or five
times in building this law firm is I I get those advertisements on social media about um lead generation firms. They’re
they oh we’re going to get you this and we’re going to get you that and we only recommended and you know we’re the all
this stuff. And so I threw some money at lead generation and u I got zero cases.
uh two months. Um I spent $20,000 and I got zero cases. I learned I learned my
lesson. I’m I’m a little shocked at that because I have other firms that do lead genen.
Now, if you’re going to spend California California may be different or Southern California may be even more
different. Okay, just just to let you know, it’s so competitive. There are a couple I’ve talked to the the good firms
that do this. They say, “Well, all our we’ve sold all our leads already um to
to the big big advertising firms. They sold the good ones.” Yeah. And you got the I don’t that I don’t know, but you know,
I don’t know if they they they say they don’t, you know, but um they’re they’re it’s very competitive and expensive. So,
um I I should have had more return. It is expensive and and yeah, go ahead.
If you’re going to go down the lead genen path, it is expensive. So, you have to be able to increase the average
case value in order to absorb that advertising cost or that lead genen cost.
So, you’re open to AI and more and more attorneys are open to AI. There’s still
the civil defense guys out there that think it’s going to be the death of what they do and it probably will be. It’s certainly
going to compress them even more. Yeah. Give me a good use case for AI on the case side, whether it’s an intake or
workflow throughout. What do you use AI for internally? Well, um, first of all, we we are open
to all to to tech. Uh, we’re we’re tech forward as far as I’m concerned. But,
um, but I’ll give you remind me to give you the counter to it. Uh, as we as we get into it, the I think that the the
most useful tech part that we have is that we use a Filevine as our case
management software. And if we do a good job in managing a case by um by getting
the medical records into um FileVine, by getting uh the police report and other
types of reports, depositions, things like that into Filevine for the lower or
or average value cases, our um demand um
package is put together with one finger um at the you know. Isn’t that amazing?
Yeah. I mean, we edit it and so forth. I’m not saying it’s that simple, but but you know, the demands now, um, you know,
I think they’re mostly for [snorts] the client to see that we’ve done the work. I think that they the the uh defense um
evaluates with their own AI, you know, the cases, but we see we see the responses to our demands and, you know,
it’s so predictable. Um, pretty soon my AI will talk to their AI and they’ll
just send me a check. So, [laughter] I absolutely love Filevine. Have many
clients on it. I I love the fact that it’s kind of open source and you can create reports. It’s it’s not simple to
create the reports, but once you figure it out, it’s very easy. Have you do you use QBO and have you implemented their
bridge to QuickBooks Online? Uh no. No. [laughter]
Okay. um um on the PI practice, I I don’t think we
we necessarily need that. And also what we want to do is tricate the you know
the the finances um to to meet California standards which are very rigorous um for trust accounting. So so
we we kind of do some of that old school um keeping things separate. We actually have an outside um bookkeeping service.
We have an internal bookkeeper bookkeeper [clears throat] and we keep books in Filevine. So, it’s we we
actually do quite a lot to to comply. So, you’re staying on top of your IELTa
reconciliation requirements. It it’s not only are we staying on top of it. Um I required that um the people
that have anything to do with it whatsoever take in-depth legal accounting um course and make sure that
uh that we’re doing it correctly. Yes, because I am I I shouldn’t be mortified, but I’m like I’m so scared that this,
[laughter] you know, we could do something wrong. You know, I I will tell you that you can and I’m
not going to try and change your mind on this, but you can within QBO and in a
file environment do that reconciliation that would give you the comfort for even for California in QBO and it it works
phenomenally. But I’m not I’ll I’ll take a look at it. I’m open I literally am open to anything. Uh um I
trying, you know, my my old school boomer brain, you know, shuts things down. I’m really trying to be open to
everything. Really, I’m with you on the boomer side there. In fact, technology-wise, I have a group
of Sheldon that I say, “Hey, this is what I need. This is their software and
they they make it happen.” Yeah. Yeah. Hey, give me one thing that you either want to start doing or stop doing in the
next 12 months. Well, that that’s that’s a a hard
question. Uh um the one thing that um I I think that we are going to change
within hopefully shorter than 12 months is um
counterintuitive. What’s made our our our firm really successful, I think, is our customer
service. And I have about a 100% uh sign up rate when I talk to a client.
Okay? I mean, I’m it’s I don’t know where it came from. I don’t I I I’m just
good at it. I like people. I like solving problems. Um and I get I get them to sign on the dotted line. Okay.
But that’s a problem. It’s a problem because it’s my staff who who are
excellent whenever they get any kind of push back at all goes, “Oh, well, you want to talk to Barry?” Okay. So like
it’s so so um that that tells me that that we aren’t going to scale and we
aren’t going to grow unless we start to take this stuff away from me. And so that’s that’s our our I think it’s going
to be our biggest challenge is that it’s our team our success of our team and our
methodology and our and everything we do that we’re selling. We’re not selling Barry any we can’t sell Barry anymore.
That’s it’s too much work for me. [laughter] So, um, that’s that’s I don’t mind
talking to clients. If you want to build the firm that have to be there every day, you’re you’re going to need to transfer those skills
down. Right. Exactly. Right. So, uh, that’s that’s
what we’re going to be working on and it’s going to be a firm. Have you ever thought about
Oh, got a little freeze going here. We’re having some internet issues. the Iranians or the Chinese are the Iranians
or Chinese are hacking our systems here. Have you ever thought about role playinging and and doing some training
in the closing area? Uh yeah, we’re we’re gonna um I I’ve got
some ideas. Um, and I I I I feel bad that I can’t quote the name of the book, but I just read read a book by a couple
of marketing guys uh about this topic and um and they had some really good
ideas about the language that that um can be used
um for um the staff and and the team that that that really defers, you know,
push back and and um and answers objections. So, so we’re going to work on that. Absolutely.
That’s that’s that’s that’s where we’re going. I think that’ll be
if you can get that done, that will help you grow exponentially without you closing every deal. Hey, before we wrap
up, I want to go down a path that we talked about before, and that you are a
brass player. You play the trombone. Tell me how that came about and what who
you play for now. Uh well, how it came about is uh is kind of cornball. Um um when I was [snorts]
four or five years old, I saw uh The Music Man and it was 76 trombones and
I used to march around the house and with a pretend trombone and my dad who was a former professional musician, he
was a drummer. He took me to a music store, said, “Set this guy up with a trombone.” And the music store guy said,
“Uh, I don’t think so.” Uh, he his his arms are goes, “What about a clarinet or
a trumpet?” And I said, “Nah, I don’t want to play that.” So that was that. So that sat, you know, for for like four or
five years. And then out of the blue uh for Christmas time, um, my mom and dad
got me a trombone out of the blue. I was in middle school. And um you know I didn’t even know what to make of it, you
know, and and I started playing it and I started taking lessons and I really liked it. They had to they used to have
to tell me to uh stop practicing and go to bed at night because I enjoyed it that much.
And then the opportunities, I mentioned this off camerara earlier, the opportunities for trombone players are
there because there’s not that many of them compared to other instruments. So throughout high school, um I was very
much in demand. every every jazz band, every pep band, every orchestra, they
all needed a a trombone player. And if I played trumpet, I might not have gotten those opportunities. And so, um, the the
trombone opened up a lot of doors. Um, and then when I went to college, um, I
was the I went to UCLA, I was the only freshman in the um, the the UCLA jazz
band. Um, because the the I’m telling you, everyone in that band is is are
famous professionals now. Okay. Except for me. Um and uh um so again that
opened up an opportunity that might not have been there if I played any other instrument. And then um uh before I
started law school uh I retired um from playing um because they I I I honestly
didn’t consider being a professional. Um I didn’t think I was a virtuoso or anything like that. And it was always a
joke that uh you know trombone players don’t make very much money. So, [laughter]
um, so I I then I went to law school. I didn’t play in, um, um, got married, had
kids, raised a family, coached soccer, did all those things, and I just didn’t really have time or interest to do
things on my own. So, it was almost 30 years exactly that I picked up the trombone again and started playing. And
to my surprise, there are group groups everywhere, mostly like the ones I like are big
bands, um, and they need trombone players. They said, “Yeah, I don’t care if you’ve only been back playing three
months. We need someone to play third drum.” So, so I I I started playing almost every night around town um until
it was too much. And then I I I found out about the lawyers groups in Los Angeles. That’s the LA Lawyers
Philarmonic and the LA Lawyers Big Band of Barristers. And I I started to narrow
it down just to those groups and occasionally some other groups, but but those two groups are my primary focus.
And the guy who runs it gets us the best gigs in town. The the um Philarmonic we
play every year at the Walt Disney Hall um which is um a bucket list. It’s such
a great experience to play there. And the big band we play all sorts of charitable events uh in the best venues
you can imagine. This last weekend we played at um a place called Virginia um
Robinson’s Gardens which was the first um um like kind of mega estate in
Beverly Hills. um that Robinson’s department stores um they they also uh
he was involved in building the Beverly Hills Hotel back in the I don’t know 1915 or 1920 or something like and we
played at this beautiful estate uh and and and massive gardens and um I would
never even known about this stuff unless I was playing the trombone. So, it’s it’s been great. And in the groups I
mentioned to you, we had the presiding justice of the court of appeal, uh multiple uh superior court judges, uh
top top lawyers, including um uh a guy I want to call out, Jay Cooper. He
invented uh music law in Los Angeles, represented the the mega groups in the
70s like Chicago and um every uh everywhere Pink Floyd um all
and this is this is a guy I’m sitting next to playing, you know. So, um, it’s been a good experience being around
these lawyers and I’ve I’ve actually gotten business from it. And my senior associate is a professional
level saxophone player that I met through those groups. That’s fantastic. And I love the fact
that you have interest outside of what you do every day. I think that’s so important to have especially when you do
hang up your shingle and I know many lawyers don’t do that but you will have activities that will keep your mind
engaged. Um, you did mention the Beverly Hills Hotel and my my one time being there, as
I sat there, there was a young lady saying to the cook and the bus boy where dad was going on tour and we’re sitting
at the counter eating our shake and our cheeseburger and then mom and dad walk in and it was Sharon and Aussie Osborne.
So, it was unbeknownst to me, I didn’t know who Kelly Osborne was at the time because this is 25 years ago.
And it was Sharon and Aussie and Aussie was right next to me. He had a balsamic He had a a salad with balsamic vinegar.
That was it. And his hands were shaking, but it was my brush with uh with That’s your brush with fame. Yeah,
that is It’s all around Los Angeles if you kind of know where to go. But uh um when I
grew up uh in in the valley here, um uh Chuck Connors lived right down the
street from us. Oh, wow. The rifle. Yeah. My my brothers were friends with
with his sons and it was that was that was my my first taste of someone famous.
That’s awesome. Hey Barry, before we wrap up, what’s the best way for folks to get a hold of you or your law firm?
Yeah, I hope they could just say Barry P. Goldberg uh Uninsured Motorist Law,
but my my um uh website address is uh ww.berrypgoldberg.com.
Um, and hope hopefully I’m searchable. I get a lot of calls from lawyers uh outside of California because they’re
flummixs trying to figure out uh California uninsured and underinsured motorists law. So, I do arbitrations and
advice for people out of state all the time. So, glad to anyone uh have any
questions, I’ll answer them for free. Great. Hey Barry, thank you for joining us today and thank all of you for
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