Building a Client-Centered Law Firm

In 35 plus years of doing this, I’ve never had a dispute with client over money. You’re not buying a dispute with

a smartass lawyer that’s got, you know, that can beat you at this because I I could insist on higher fees than that.

We’ve grown large enough in this firm where the kind of fees that I’ve now given back in a year are [music]

in excess of $200,000.

[music]

Most firms survive, the best ones scale. [music] Welcome to the Managing Partners

podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I’m Kevin Daisy. Let’s jump in. What is going on, my podcast

listeners? Uh thanks so much as always for tuning in to the show. Uh love doing this, love learning from my guests,

getting to know them and hoping uh you find value in each and every episode.

Still always looking for great people. So if you’re interested, reach out. Uh but today we have Barry Goldberg on the

show. He’s coming out of Los Angeles, California. Has a amazing firm. Does some very unique things, things that

he’s passionate about that makes him different. Uh and every firm is different. um which I think is exciting

for us uh in the marketing world. So Barry, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks Kevin. I’m glad to talk with

you. I’ve watched several of your pro podcasts, so I’m glad to be included in uh in that company.

I appreciate that. Yeah, we chatted a little bit backstage. Uh you know, Jen Gore, we’re in How to Manage with her.

Um I’m very familiar with that group as well. Um our John has been on has been on the show a couple times as well. But

uh great to see lawyers, you know, engaging in masterminds and groups and getting

together to learn from each other. Um and that, you know, that’s what the podcast is all about. It’s just a

different way to to learn something. So tell us a little bit about your background, uh your story, and uh we’ll

get into some unique things here uh real quick for everyone listening. Barry has processes in place. He cares about his

clients, the way he handles them, intake, and the whole process, client journey, I’d like to call it. We’re

going to dive into that today and what he does and uh hopefully it’ll be helpful to you. So, Barry, tell us your

your story and your background. All right. Well, I I come from a big family uh that was uh basically born and

raised in the West San Franando Valley here, part of Los Angeles. And more or less, give or take, I’ve spent most of

my entire life in this area. So, I know lots of people. I know lots of

organizations. I was the president of the San Franando Valley Bar Association. Um my kids played soccer at every school

or field around. Um and so so I’m really familiar with the terrain and so uh

that’s that starts this process of really knowing like the dangerous intersections and the proclivities of

certain driving habits and that kind of stuff. Um, I uh started out way back

when uh with a defense firm that did a lot of insurance coverage and insurance bad faith. And then shortly thereafter,

I jumped in with my brother who was a personal injury lawyer. And I practiced in Beverly Hills with him for 17 years.

That’s how I learned how to practice law. And when my kids started getting a little bit older and I wanted to spend

more time with them instead of commuting back and forth to Beverly Hills, um I um opened my own office. had no idea

why or what and where I was going to go with that. Um, and I sort of learned on

the fly. Um, then I uh um I I I was one

of these guys that assumed that since I’m the best lawyer that I know that the phone should be ringing off the hook and

it wasn’t. So, I started this journey of trying to figure out what makes people want to call a lawyer and um and how to

provide what they’re looking for. And so, that’s kind of the the the background of my firm. Um I practiced

for many years as a soloish, you know, with a um a parallegal, maybe one or two

support staff. And it was um uh not a pleasant experience

um to make every court appearance, answer every phone call, lick the stamps and all that kind of stuff. And I as I

started to to reach out and and and read more, I found a couple people that said, “Hey, you can compete with large law

firms and this is what you need to do.” Um and then uh ultimately um as as I

started to grow with some of those ideas, I realized I had no idea how to

manage a law firm. And so [laughter] so that’s how uh how to manage a small law

firm kind of got into the the play there. I went and talked to them at a a convention in Las Vegas and I thought,

you know what, they could backfill a lot of stuff for me. Uh and I still implement a lot from that. I still

listen to RJ John’s uh little snippets on Instagram and on Facebook um as

reminders. What’s that? They’re more like sermons. Yeah. Well, well, you know, they’re I I

like, you know, if I can get a nugget out of that or a reminder of why I’m doing what I’m doing. Um I feel like I’m

still in that program um without, you know, sort of the administrative stuff that goes with being in part of a

program. Um, so I respect that program a lot and it it’s really uh I wasn’t able

to implement everything that they said in such a short period of time but over time I am implementing that and I feel

like we run a pretty pretty strong office here. That’s awesome. Um, yeah, kudos to

Arjgon out there. Um, also the name that he came up with is just very simple

for me. [laughter] For me it made good sense. It makes a lot of sense. Um

I have people like HTM kind of pull it down to that but um yeah great program heard a lot of good

things about it obviously know our John um we’ve had a lot of clients that are uh in that program so uh just great

stuff I mean it it’s interesting you know you started your own firm because you wanted more time [laughter]

but as you stay small right it’s you know it’s definitely not not what we hoped it would be out the gate so uh you

know we have to we have to learn, implement uh and build up our firms in

order to you know create the firm that we really want to help the clients. Yeah, that that’s the biggest difference

in my life is that um a lot of the firm is self-executing now. Um, I spend a lot

more time with my dog and exercising and stuff and my wife too. And um um uh and

the uh income is a little bit more predictable and um you know I think my

lifestyle is a lot better. Yeah. I mean the firm should be designed to you know fit within what you want in your life,

right? So um it shouldn’t run you ragged. Uh that’s for sure because that’s you know you can’t help clients

if you’re running [snorts] around like crazy. um you don’t have systems in place, you know, um you’re just doing

everyone a disservice. RJ John says that very clearly. Um you know, if your

craft’s not together, you’re not running a a good firm, um then you’re dropping

the ball. You’re not getting the clients. You’re you’re doing them a disservice. some of the disconnect that I had and I don’t know that Arjun and I

disagree on this but I mean he’s so stressing the um business aspect of of a

law firm that um I’m I feel like I’m one of the few that really liked and uh um

looked forward to and respected the um legal part and and advocacy and you know

to to jump into his program you you almost have to remove yourself from that and and like he said unless you want to

be doing that and then the other thing that I’ve discovered over time and I think we’re going to talk about it is um

I like clients. I like talking to them. Um I like solving problems and now um

when I talk to people like yourself and other lawyers, I realize that I have actually a superpower.

Um and and that’s what I kind of want to share with uh with some of your listeners is that they can they can have

that power too. Um uh it it’s you just have to be intentional about it. I love it. And one of the things you

said uh opening up there was that you could compete with larger firms. Like

someone told you, hey, you could compete with larger firms. And I love that because, you know, I talked to so many startups. I have clients that we do

marketing for that are, you know, a year in the business or just getting started. And a lot of them feel in the beginning

like, well, I can’t compete with these uh these folks. And so, yeah, you are different. You’re unique. You’re

a superpower. how you handle yourself versus kind of what you were told uh would be the right way to do it. You’re

doing what you want to do and what feels right and that makes you different and makes you stand out from the other ones

other firms in your market. We’re we’re still competing against a lot larger law firms and it’s this is a very crowded space here in Southern

California as you can imagine probably the most crowded space. But I I there was a um I’m going to go back to like

what the early uh reading that I did. Uh this a young lady by the name of Kristen

Marquee who has a marketing company here in now she’s in Orange County and she wrote an article about how to be a ninja

like a lawyer you know to to find those little cracks where you can you can get

your cases and um um that I took that to heart and

um and I really worked it and I still think that that’s available for a first year lawyer which is simple two things

you need to uh create content content, original content. Okay? I know it’s hard to find the time to do that, but you you

got to do it. Um you have to let the world know that you did it. Okay? Um and

[laughter] and then um if you’re going to create content, you might as well make it um

focused into areas not only that you’re interested in, but that u you will become a foremost or a high authority

figure for. And I was able to do that in California here. Some people argue that I might be the foremost authority on

uninsured and underinsured motorist law in California. It’s a very confused area, by the way, here. And um to give

you an idea of of of how confusing it is, I get at least one to two calls from

other lawyers every day who have read my articles or blog posts and want to run

their cases by me, get advice, um get forms, things like that. And that was

all done 12 years ago, you know, when I started

blogging on this particular topic. So, so it’s evergreen and keeps on

producing, I think, is the point. And anyone can do that. Any young, you know, lawyer starting out can can can

establish themselves as an authority. And then of course there’s more tools now than when I I was what I would do is

I would I would um come in Saturday morning, write two blog posts, push them out uh on whatever social media I used

at that point in time on Tuesday and one on Thursday, put it on my website, which increased the SEO by the way. Um and uh

so so I I did it like I committed to it every Saturday. I came in and write wrote two blog posts. So it but by six

months though the the phone started ringing and I was amazed. I I I I I’m so old. I’m so old, Kevin. I can’t believe

that anyone finds someone online and hires them as their lawyer. I I mean, so I’m still It still blows me away. Okay.

[laughter] Um so the phone book at Come on. Yeah. So

[music] Well, you know, so to become an

authority, you you don’t just do it once or twice, right? You committed and did it for a long time. Um, and that’s still

sticky today, which is amazing. So, and yes, you can find the cracks and crevices. You can find the the niches

that the bigger established firms maybe you’re like, “Yeah, I’m not interested in those things.” So, yeah, everyone

listening, if you feel overwhelmed or whatever, you you can find something that is a good fit for you. Hopefully,

you enjoy doing it, too. But, um, look for those opportunities to where you can become an authority and that could be a

springboard to to doing other things as well. So great advice. Um I I do want to

talk about you know some of your processes there um in the firm um and we talked about this earlier um backstage I

guess if you call it um with your clients and you you like working with your clients. You like engaging with your clients um but you also you again

have a process for how you handle a client from start to finish and kind of what your your goals are uh along the

way. So I guess please share you know more about that and we’ll just I mean I have a little bit of a a sales

background. I don’t I don’t uh I don’t consciously use you know sales techniques. I but I you know when I was

in a kid I sold shoes and then in uh before I started law school I sold uh uh

furniture at a high-end furniture place. So it’s been it’s very natural for me to to to sell. And then I think Arjgon, you

know, kind of identified saying, you know, uh, selling legal services is sales. Don’t don’t try and, you know, be

fancy about it. Don’t say you’re high and mighty because you’re a lawyer. You’re selling a service. Okay? So,

things started to click that way. And, um, um, another thing clicked around the

same time I had a a colleague in a in a business networking group. I was complaining to him that I I there was a

a perfectly good wrongful death case that I was really wellqualified to handle and they didn’t hire me. Okay, I

was crashing. I couldn’t understand it. And um he got me he he gave me a book um

Robert Chaldini’s uh persuasion which wasn’t turns out not to be the exact right book. The the the right book was

his next book which was persuasion. Okay, Robert Chaldini. If people don’t know him, look him up. uh it’s easy

enough to to you know find out about them. So the idea is what’s this customer journey going to look like?

First of all, who’s calling on the phone? What you know um what’s what’s that like for someone you know calling a

law office for the first time? And it’s I can tell you this much, it’s frightening. The the expectation is that

you’re going to be uh bounced around to this person and that person. and you’re going to have to give tons of information and then you don’t get to

speak to a lawyer and then who knows and then you don’t know if this guy’s working out of the backseat of his car

or whether he’s a legit lawyer. All this this doubt that people come have Yeah.

spinning. So, um I try and take phone calls if I’m not in court or at a deposition or something. I try and take

the calls from from from people and I first things first and my whole staff is trained. We’re courteous because we know

people, as I said, people are are nervous calling the law office. They don’t know what to expect. They they expect the worst, I should say. And then

we try and help them on the phone if they if they are kind enough to call us. So, sometimes it’s just like, oh, you

need to file a police report in this circumstance. You need to call this insurance company. You you know,

whatever it is, my staff and I try and help them on that when they call us. We’re just we’re we’re helpful. We’re

going to We don’t have our handout. We’re not like it’s $500 and we’ll give you the answer what to do with your towed car, you know, it’s nothing like

that. I mean, we answer the question. We’re we’re there for them. Okay, so that’s the first thing.

Um the the next thing is that we want to um um answer all the questions like

don’t I I’ve seen this as a technique with especially with younger lawyers is they’re like okay well sign up with with

me and then we’ll we’ll get to the meat and potatoes of your your case, you know, and um people want answers.

Clients are are better clients when they’re educated. They make better choices that all of that kind of stuff.

So, spend as much as time as necessary with with a new new caller. Um, if we

don’t, let’s say um um we don’t I don’t get the call right away. Um we do we

send out a text message saying, “Hey, you know, we you know, we want to talk

to you about your case. Here are a couple articles about our firm or or an article that I’ve wr written recently.”

So, it starts to precondition that we’re qualified. We are a professional interested in their case. Um, a little

bit about that. We use um a program called Hona uh and Lead Docket. Very

Hona and Lead Docket. Yeah. And the show. So when a lot of like my lawyer colleagues

are just blown away that we we do this like like schedule a call and that they

get a reminder on text or email. Um when you go to the dentist, I mean that’s

what happens, right? And so why wouldn’t they have that expectation for a law office that you contact them and and

follow up and and that you’re in a schedule. They’re not going to call at a time go, “Oh, well, the lawyer’s out.”

You know, it’s not going to happen. They get the confirmations and things like that. It makes them feel nice and warm

and toasty that they’re dealing with with a professional organization. Um, and people forget or or whatever,

too. Just a reminder like I I talk about Dominoes or Uber or those they constantly tell you what’s happening.

Your car’s on the way. They’ll be there in two minutes. It’s the expect it’s consumer expectation and lawyers feel generally

that they don’t have to they don’t have to worry about that. And it’s uh they’re wrong. They do. Um this also stems

another like quick story is I got a call about someone who had this very very serious motorcycle accident. Um, and he

was interviewing law firms in in at his house. He’s it literally it’s like one of those movies. His leg was up in the

air, you know, with on a pulley kind of thing, right? [laughter] And uh I you know, I went there and um and I talked

to him and in front of me was was very professional printed materials from

other law firms and folders with the with the you know that and instructions

what to do. and I came I had a a manila folder and a business card, you know, and I’m like, you know, I don’t have all

the tools to compete for these cases. So you so it it changes your mindset which is you if you were hiring someone you

would want them to have um materials to explain what the process is to to show

that that you you’re not just doing this you know the seat of your pants um that

this is what you do that you don’t also do three other types of law and you’re just trying to get this case in the

door. So, so you you want to, you know, have those materials with you, you know,

um, and and it helps the confidence, I think, but for me, of signing up big cases. Um, so like having a clean, you

know, if your office was just a mess and not organized, how do they think you’re going to handle their case?

That’s right. You’re going to drop the ball, miss things, or maybe not organized. Yeah. There was there was a a a speaker

that I I can’t remember his name right now, but he said that um the clients look at your car. Okay. [laughter] And

then and if you if you open the door and like a bunch of junk falls out of there, that’s not a good sign. Um and in fact

on sign up of a case once I was at uh I remember was Huntington Hospital and it was a very serious accident case and the

family liked me. Uh and then I noticed they followed me out to the parking lot.

[laughter] They wanted to see what car I got in. Um, so I I’m not saying that that you

know these days if you know most of it’s done digitally you know but uh you know that’s the consumer mindset. So, so when

we get that first call, here we are. Answer all those questions and then every lawyer should have answers to the

major objections um internalized already because that’s that really helps uh sell

um a client, which is you have you’re not like, well, I don’t you know, you know, I don’t know how much your case is

worth or I don’t know, you know, how long this is going to take and and so forth. Sure. you you don’t have a

crystal ball and sure you can’t guarantee stuff. We actually did something I I swear to you I’m the only

lawyer that answers this question, but we did we audited 250 files and we we

put down the date of the accident and the date that the client got the check. Okay. And and and then and then we

averaged it, right? And in our office, um, it’s pretty lightning fast that we

we get a client a check on average, um, about 8 to nine months. Okay? Now, a

fender bender case is going to be a lot faster. Um, a litigated head injury case is going to be a lot longer. But the but

the client could say, “Okay, well, we’ll start with the eight months at this law firm, and my my case is simple, or my

case is hard.” I love to give an answer because they don’t like saying, “Ah, it depends.” You know, you know that that

that’s what that’s a lawyer. typical lawyer answer. So, I like to have an answer to that question. The other thing, I think that’s great to have. You know,

you’re not guaranteeing nothing. It’s just like when law firms ask me, if I hire your SEO, what’s the results I’m

going to get in 30 days? Nothing. [laughter] Yeah. It’s just nothing. You can’t give

a strong answer. But I I love having that average because it’s not just some national average. It’s like, hey, based

on our files for our clients, this is our average. I love that. Um the the

other thing that you have to keep in mind is people are very suspicious of lawyers and um and the bad stories that

go with them. So are you going to take all the money and give me a bunch of lawyer double talk? Um that’s that’s the

main I think that’s one of the main objections and I answer it upfront. Um

that um now I’m not saying other lawyers should follow this. It’s up to them. But um I tell them upfront that at our law

firm, we never take more money than the client ever. Ever. And there’s lots of

good reasons why we could, should, and ought to. But I know the younger lawyers, if it says 40 or 45% on their

fee agreement, that’s what they get. That’s what they get. Well, it’s hard to get a fivestar review when you’ve taken more money than the client receives.

Okay? So, I weave into that conversation. Look, would you ever give me a fivestar review if I took more

money than you got for your broken arm? No. Of course not. Right. So, so we’ve got you in my mind. We got you in mind.

And then um one of the things I I I say also is that look, you don’t have to just take my word for it. Okay? We do

something that’s not required by the standard of care in California, but I think good lawyers good it’s superior

care is that we do a preliminary distribution worksheet and we never pay anybody until a client signs off,

including the lawyer. And by the by the lawyer’s fee, we we have a little statement. I agree that this fee is

totally fair. Okay. Um so so I I tell them look, you’re gonna have an opportunity to check me at the end, you

know, and not not just take my word for it right now. And um that um starts to

condition them that I’m not trying to rip them off, right? And I say, “Look, um in 35 plus years of doing this, I’ve

never had a dispute with client over money.” So, so that’s not you’re you’re not buying a dispute with a with a a

smartass lawyer that that’s got, you know, that can can can beat you at this because I I could I could insist on

higher fees sometimes. Now, we’ve grown large enough um in this firm where the

kind of fees that I’ve now given back in a year are in excess of $200,000. Okay,

that’s a that’s a bitter pill to swallow for a small law firm. Um, [laughter] okay. But, but I don’t have, you know,

two billboards on Ventura Boulevard. Um, you know, that would cost about that that for all year. My advertising is you

is you. You’re you’re it. You my my um fairness to you means that I’m going to

get your neighbor’s case and your mother-in-law’s case when she gets run over by a truck. That those cases are

coming to me. Okay. and and so and then I asked them at the end that if if I uh

answer all your questions, if we’re responsive to you during the course of the the the case and I get a great

result, is it fair for me to ask for a fivestar review at the end of the case? And of course there of course they are

going to say yes, right? And even when they say yes, [laughter] everyone everyone that’s listening to this knows

it’s not easy to get uh reviews even from even from very satisfied clients that the the rate used to be about 20%

for me and now it’s up probably closer to 75%. Um so um because people will put do it

later. They yeah they mean to do it and then they go on and they don’t have a Google account. They got no we’re not

doing this. Well, you’re planting the seed very early, right out the out the gate. So, you’re not just And I like

that because everything you’re talking about here, you’re you’re starting with the end in mind. So, what are the objections they’re going to have? Let’s

address them. Let’s be very and and let’s be crystal clear, giving fivestar service is more difficult and

more costly than not doing it. Okay? So, so this is an like an investment that

the whole firm has to be in on. Okay. Um and uh um uh there’s a lot of lawyers

that see this as a business and that that is sort of, you know, an

unnecessary expense, you know, of taking phone calls, spending 5 minutes rather

than 2 minutes. You you could I could probably make more money in a year by by

really cutting down the customer service. and and in legal services uh the bar is so low that that even anyone

giving effort to customer service will will excel in my opinion. That’s my

opinion. So so you don’t have to call I call the time or even call you know prospects or a

firm that wants to make work with us and get well offices you’re like you know it’s

terrible. It’s it’s pretty bad there. And there’s some great firms that do a great job, but they

that’s why they’ve been on this show. That’s why they Yeah. And and there’s some other things you some of it can be digitized. I mean,

the Hona program for us um along with our our case managers reaching out on a

on a a set periodical basis. Um when there’s some kind of change in their

case, they automatically get notified. Um so if it’s gone like they’re done treating now, we’re going to be doing a

demand, they get a video. Okay. Now, Hona has the like little cartoon that’s

generic about, you know, oh, we’re done treating and you know that um and we replace those with videos of me. So, so

um the client gets gets to talk to me [laughter] about what’s going to happen

next and and they like that. They they that’s me saying, “Okay, we’re we’re

doing a demand. What’s a demand and what’s going to go in and what can you expect?” And so so that’s another touch

that we have you know with people and uh um you know RJ John used to say and this

shows also dates him as well as me is that there’s this uh theoretical cocktail party that’s going on and you

hear people complaining about their lawyers like I haven’t heard from him in 2 years I don’t know what’s going on with my case you know it went south that

kind of stuff and they’re supposed to answer well Barry’s my lawyer um you know we almost get too many calls from

him and uh you know and uh and he did our case like bing bang and whenever I

called he picked up the phone. Um so that comparison supposed to take place

uh you know it and um um I I don’t think there people have cocktail parties

anymore. I don’t [laughter] I don’t know. Not Yeah, not like they used to. Um

yeah, I love it. I mean, Hona is great. They’re good friends of mine. Yeah. Um and they have a great program and

there’s a lot of systems out there that other lawyers listening could can leverage. Um you know, Barry was making

this happen regardless. Now he’s got some tools that are helping him make it more effective. And we also we do some

of some of the old school stuff which is um we do a shock and a box uh for all

new clients. Uh it’s loaded with jelly beans. is it’s got their paper copies of the paperwork that they sent us and

retainer agreement. It’s got like what to expect. Um it’s got uh uh whatever

our latest uh uh thing is, letter openers, uh you know, pens, things like

that. So, we do that at the beginning so they feel like, okay, this is this is my stuff. We’re we’re engaged. I know that

they’re my lawyers, you know, and it’s all branded stuff, you know, so so so it’s out there. And then we send

something 3 months later and we send something 6 months later and then uh we

send something uh to to past clients including one more thing we do to touch

clients is we do uh digital birthday cards um with with Starbucks uh um cards

in them for um clients really seem to like that. I don’t know if it’s cuz the

cost of everything is so ridiculous. Maybe people aren’t going out for that uh you know pumpkin spice latte like

they used to, but now you know this this one’s on Barry. So So we do lots of lots

of stuff. Love it. I mean it’s um I haven’t heard many firms honestly that that do those exact things or like a

shock and all box. I think that’s that’s more something like you know a marketing agency would send you a shock and all

box. So, um I think that’s an awesome idea and uh I like I think the old

school methods or handwritten cards things that are are they’re going to stand out even more today whereas

everything is digital. So when they receive those things so they can get the gift card even it’s online and go use it

like imagine you know your law firm doing all that for you over an extended really saying we appreciate you. You we

do so much to have them call us. I mean you’re in the the marketing space. I mean, I don’t know what the cost is per

client. I’m not that smart. But we do a lot to try and get them to the to phone. And then then we’re going to ignore our

client list. I mean, that’s insane. And when we when I can’t go on TV or

billboards, I mean, I I need my past clients to uh to refer and and I can’t

let them be sitting in front of the TV and go, you know, I’m going to call that other guy, you know, see let’s see what it’s like with him, you know, I I can’t

afford that, you know. Yeah. or or if you you help them then they have a friend or family member that

gets hurt and then that’s my business. You don’t recommend that they don’t recommend you because they’re just like well you know I did get a settlement

whatever but it was not a great experience. We we run about 50% of our new cases are

from um referrals. I don’t know if that that’s probably higher than than a lot.

the other 40% uh uh the next 40% I should say not

other is uh like uh SEO type searches and then the other 10% are various um

crazy marketing schemes that I’ve been you know trying to use [laughter] to move the needle you know um and uh

lately I’ve been spending a lot of my um brain power such that it is on fig

trying to hack and figure out AI search. Um, and I I was talking to um a guy that

does some of our marketing and and I told him this, I can’t think of anything else that this this is I mean, if I miss

this boat that I’m miss, right? He says, “Well, if you figure that out, you’re worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

[laughter] Please share.” Well, you know, everything’s changing. You know, it’s um something to step up

and keep up with. And if any firms listening um you know there’s lots of

different ways people can find you now and that’s changing pretty rapidly. So um obviously as a marketing person and

agency owner that’s uh top of our mind every day but um you know you got the

things that still work and and some time like you’re saying to spend on areas that are new uh new up and coming. Can

you get in and ride that wave? you know, just like when YouTube came around or Tik Tok and so some things can be a

distraction and might be too early to to adopt, but you know, some things aren’t going anywhere like AI is definitely not

going anywhere. So, yeah, it’s going to it’s going to take a larger percentage. That’s probably uh for another time to talk about. But the

good news for um marketers like yourself and lawyers that that um that uh have

been sensitive to this is your SEO as a a platform for what’s next is simply the

best possible thing you can do. Um everything else is, you know, there are some some little hacks that I’ll share

with you, [laughter] but but um that’s that’s that’s the basis of it all. You still have to be a found authoritative

lawyer. So yeah, which you know if you’re unique um it’s based on your reviews, your

reputation um you know it’s based on good content that’s helpful to to someone looking. That’s the basis of it

all and that’s why what what’s effective. Yeah. If you’re doing good work and having great experiences for

clients and they give good reviews and talk about their experiences on Reddit and other places like that, you’re going

to win um no matter what platform comes comes along. Um and to you, you know,

you you don’t compromise. um on what you believe and having those longer calls and answering the

questions. Uh that is your secret sauce, right? I enjoy it. So that’s it’s like

not fair, you know, to you know that [laughter] that that’s of all the things I do in my practice. I like talking to

people and solving their problems and um who knew you know way back when when

they said you know Arjgon says well what’s your value proposition? What makes you unique? What I’m like gee I’m

experienced. I’m nice guy. you know, all this stuff, right? [laughter] That who knew who knew that my real value

proposition was giving uh uh customer service and um and good legal advice.

Who knew that that I it should have been that should be assumed for every lawyer, right? But it’s not. I’m I’m a unicorn

or something. It’s it’s crazy. So So I I understand the way that you know people

are scaling their law practices. you some of the the personal touch gets left

off, but at least for us right now, this is how we work and this is, you know, if someone wants a a law firm like that, um

we’re here. So, that’s, you know, that’s how we do it. Well, I’m glad you’re around and and glad that you’re doing uh it the way

you’re doing it. So, uh can be something for everyone to look up to and and learn from. And speaking of that, everyone,

thank you so much for for listening and tuning into Barry. I mean, this guy’s got it going on. I would say get to know

him, connect with him. Barry, what’s the best way for our folks to to reach out

and and connect with you? Sure. Yeah. I mean, they can call my office anytime, which is 818-222-6994.

Um, they can send me a personal email. I will answer it if they have any questions. That’s my initials BPG

at my name, Barry P., don’t forget the P. Goldberg.com.

That’s the best way. on other platforms. I mean, there’s messaging and things like that that they’re glad, you know, I’m glad to to to look at, but you can

call me directly. Again, that’s my style. And um I think I told you in in our pre uh interview that um since I

wrote all that content on uninsured and underinsured motorist law and and have become kind of a brain source, we do a

lot of uh cases for other lawyers outside of California. So, you don’t have to be a California lawyer. Um, if

someone has a question about how we do it with a California insurance policy, um, I’ve helped people nationally with

that. Um, or if u, uh, someone from out of state is visiting California, is in

an accident, don’t don’t understand how the uninsured motorist law works. Um, I get lots of calls on that. Excellent.

That’s great. Oh, yeah. Please reach out to Barry, connect with him, especially if you have, uh, you know, clients or

cases that are coming up that that require his expertise. Um, please connect. I

always offer two people reach out to me, you know, uh, through LinkedIn or any of my DMs through Instagram and just say,

“Hey, I would love to meet Barry.” And, uh, I’ll be happy to do a introduction, uh, email or something like that for

you. Well, Barry, thank you so much. I love what you’re doing. Thanks for sharing. Great story and some of it here today.

Yeah, I know we could talk about uh a million other things, but uh we’ll leave everyone with that and then uh I’m sure

we’ll have you on again soon to talk about some of the the other little things that uh that you mentioned and

things that we can we can go down rabbit holes. Next next podcast I’ll tell you what I’ve been finding out on uh on AI search

hacks. Okay. [laughter] And I’m happy to contribute because uh that’s what we’re doing all day. I got

people, you know, looking into this and and helping our clients with that all day long and and trying to understand

what’s what’s coming next. So, that would be a fun episode for sure. All right, Kevin,

hang out with me for a sec, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in as always and uh we’ll see you on the next

episode. Good day.